John Scheideman

Here we go again

Some time ago, I attracted attention here in my little corner of the web when I challenged a notion held by many gospel music fans whose main exposure to the genre was in the 1980s and 1990s that the late George Younce was the greatest bass singer of all time. While not denying Younce's unquestioned greatness as a bass singer, I wondered aloud how people who were largely unfamiliar with bass singers from earlier eras could fairly make such a sweeping statement.

This week I encountered a similar pronouncement in a popular gospel music discussion forum. A poster was challenging an assertion that Mark Trammell was a prime example of a singer who made a habit of changing groups quickly and often. While he was right in arguing that Trammell is NOT an example of such a singer, he went a bit far, IMHO, to make his point. He stated that Trammell was "without a doubt" one of the two greatest baritones in the history of gospel music, along with Doy Ott.

Now the person who made this comment is one of the better bloggers out there today on the gospel music blogroll. But he is a relatively young man, and not likely that familiar with many of the quartet singers prior to the 1980s. I responded with the comment that his statement about Trammell was "incredible", and if any of my readers are privy to that discussion, perhaps an explanation for my own comment is in order.

The history of gospel music on record goes back over 80 years, and a quarter of a century more if the earliest days of the genre are figured into it. Nobody I know is familiar with every singer who ever sang in the genre during that time, but thanks to the recordings I'm familiar with(which date back some 60 years), I'm familiar with a lot of fine baritones in a lot of great quartets.

And again, the question I ask is this: How does someone familiar with only the past 25 years know that Trammell(who, IMHO, is an excellent baritone, BTW)is better than the likes of Erman Slater, James McCoy, Billy Carrier, Don Baldwin, Don Norman, Glen Allred, Earl Weatherford, R.W.Blackwood, Cecil Blackwood, John Mathews, Danny Koker, and many more that unfortunately escape my memory roll at the moment?

The answer is, unless he has access to that many recordings, he/she doesn't...I don't care how many so-called experts he/she may discuss the matter with.

Now, in fairness to the person I'm "picking on" to make my point here, I'm not arguing that Trammell isn't greater than at least some of the names cited above. This sort of thing is a matter of opinion anyway, now matter how many recordings one has or how many times one has seen a given singer in concert. I hasten to add that line because I don't want to be confused with another prominent blogger who sometimes holds his own opinions as almost a matter of law.grin

My only point is that there is certainly room for plenty of doubt as to the notion that Trammell and Ott are head and shoulders above every other baritone in gospel music history. Frankly, I'm not even sure myself who is the best of all.

But I know that the consensus of most gospel music historians is that Ott and R.W. Blackwood are usually cited by longtime fans as the preeminent baritone singers of all. In fact, my own top five, in addition to those two, would include Danny Koker, Glen Allred, and Don Baldwin.

But that is only my humble opinion...not worth any more than the paper one might print this post out on.

The bottom line is that there have been many great gospel singers over the past century...and no doubt many more will join their ranks in the coming century. And we're all entitled to our favorites...for WHATEVER reason they may be so.

Let's just try to keep our encomia under control, and not presume our tastes to be fact when they're only our tastes.
Posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 10:25 PM | [8] Comments | Southern Gospel Music | Permalink

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I wasn't the one who said that, was I?

I have numerous recordings from the 1950s and on, as well as songs on compilations dating back to 1927, and I have heard most of the names you mentioned.

The two I consider to be the all-time best are Glen Allred and Mark Trammell. My opinions have been formed after hearing dozens of Statesmen recordings featuring Doy Ott, several Blackwood Brothers recordings featuring R.W. (plus dozens more featuring Cecil, of course), and various recordings by the Couriers, the original Cathedrals, the Weatherfords, and several of the other groups you name.

I know, some people say we shouldn't say someone was one of the greatest ever until they're dead or at least retired. But I'm all in favor of giving someone the roses--the recognition--while they're living.


Commented by Daniel J. Mount On 04/04/2008

*raises hand* It wasn't you, Daniel. John is referring to (not "picking on") me. I was actually answering the "I figure that Mark Trammell is either extremely talented or he is not easy to get along with" comment. As I said in my other comment in the thread, I really should have added "IMO".

I have listened to several, but not all, of the names you listed above. I maintain that my statement isn't that "incredible", but that is, of course, still coming from my point of view. I do wish that I had added "IMO" or "[without a doubt] in MY mind" to it, though.


Commented by Brandon_and_Lisa On 04/04/2008

Oh, okay!

Yeah, it's not far-fetched. In fact, [whispers]I've told people that in my opinion, Mark Trammell is the greatest baritone ever in SGM, with the possible exception of Glen Allred, but I don't generally say it anywhere John S. might be listening![/whispers]


Commented by Daniel J. Mount On 04/04/2008

John Scheideman's avatar Take it easy, guys...I wasn't "picking on" either of you!

Yes, I was referring to Brandon's comment, and while I disagree with it, I certainly don't undervalue Mark Trammell's immense talent in the least. I'm glad to see that Brandon actually reads this blog!

And Brandon himself does an excellent job on his own blog.

And Daniel, you need not whisper...it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, even though nobody else I know agrees with it. LOL!

Morning glory and evening grace,

Giving the world a smile each day,

john.sogospelnews.com



Commented by On 04/04/2008

I have for 35 years been involved with Gospel music. It has been my life, my dream, my passion. I however do not understand the concept of the greatest. Mark Trammel is a good friend of mine and I beleive he is a GREAT baritone. I merely agree with the one that said this is just on persons opinion. I would pose the question, what makes a great baritone? The baaritone part is difficult and without it the group sounds terrible. However, is the bgritone required to have a great solo voice such as Squire Parsons, or a great blending voice like Doy Ott, or management skills as so many of the groups of the past. What is required to say one is a great bariotne? I personally do not know.

Suffice to say that the part is essentiall. One must hear harmony, be consistant, be able to blend, but wait aren't those requirements for every position?


Commented by On 04/04/2008

adkinsdean's avatar Well, opinions are like um... elbows, everybody has one. I have a "few" recordings in my collection and I've seen a number of groups and artists since about 1950. As indicated by Ed Crawford (a real quartet man - and that's a compliment). Hearing harmony, blending being consistent are all components as well as the ability to carry the lead when given.
I've always rated Doy Ott as the best I ever heard or saw (and I think seeing an individual in a live concert should also come into play). There are many singers who are great on record but "choke" on stage - much like an athlete who is a great practice player but under-performs on the field.


Commented by On 04/04/2008

John Scheideman's avatar Dean, thanks for sharing your considerable expertise with us...as well as your educated "elbows" on this issue.grin

And thank you Ed, as well, for stopping by and lending your own considerable expertise(and firsthand experience). I concur with Dean that you are a quintessential "quartet man"...feel free to stop by and comment as often as you'd like.

In response to Ed's question as to what makes a great baritone, I feel the primary skill should be to blend and fill the harmony out. If the baritone does not do that in the least, the quartet is hurting.

Having a great solo voice(e.g., R.W., Baldwin, and Trammell)is not a requirement but certainly an asset if it's there. And management skills(Baldwin, Mathews, among others)is just more frosting on the cake...and one of the things that made both those examples "great" baritones, IMHO.

The baritone has the most difficult part to sing in any quartet, and a great one must understand music, in one way or another.

Maybe it's my advancing age, or maybe I just have more of an overall appreciation for what goes into singing, but it's not that important to me anymore to determine who the "greatest" in any category of gospel music is.

Morning glory and evening grace,

Giving the world a smile each day,

john.sogospelnews.com



Commented by On 04/04/2008

Some of the best baritones I've ever heard in a quartet were trying to sing bass.


Commented by On 04/04/2008

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